Aoifinn Devitt: This episode is supported by PIMCO, a global leader in active fixed income with deep expertise across public and private markets. PIMCO invests their clients’ capital in income and credit opportunities that span the liquidity spectrum, leveraging their decades of experience navigating complex debt markets. Their flexible capital base and deep relationships with issuers have helped them become one of the world’s largest providers of traditional and alternative investment solutions a valued financing partner. Visit pimco.com to learn more.
Rita: It’s my ability to relate and connect. I bring people into rooms. I connect people, and I feel like that’s what our profession needs. And I do this every day, even when I go to an event. Hi, I’m Aoifinn.
Aoifinn Devitt: Devitt, and welcome to the 50 Faces Podcast, a podcast committed to revealing the richness and diversity of the world of investment by focusing on its people and their stories. I’m joined today by Marguerite Cheng, who is CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth based in the Washington, DC area, as well as being a founding member of Kiplinger Advisor Collective and the Authentic Asian. A keen runner, she was co-founder of 261 Fearless, a global nonprofit organization that uses running as a vehicle to empower and unite women, as well as Girls on the Run, where she’s a soulmate. She’s also a podcast host of Margaritas with Margarita podcast, where she shares financial literacy and financial planning advice. Welcome, Rita. Thanks for joining me today.
Rita: Thank you so much for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, you have an extensive resume with many chapters within the field of wealth management. Can you briefly walk us through your path to here?
Rita: Absolutely. So I graduated with double undergraduate degrees in East Asian language and literature and finance, and it is actually the East Asian language and literature degree that helped me secure my first job in finance. I had the opportunity to work at a Japanese securities firm, and in this role, my job was to read financial statements, work with the analyst team, and write summaries in English. So in this job, I learned how to write in a clear, concise, compliant manner. I did that in my 20s, and it was time to come home to the United States and complete my second degree. And during my time at the brokerage firm, I learned a lot, but I realized something was missing. It seemed very transactional. And while it was fast-paced and I liked learning, I realized that the discipline of personal financial planning more appealed to me. However, I recognized in my 20s, who was going to take me seriously? What does this person know about retirement? So during that time, I put my head down. I read every book I could on personal finance. I helped my husband prepare for the CPA exam because in school I studied accounting and finance, but eventually I just earned my degree in finance. Then we got married, bought a house, had 2 kids. It was at that point in time where I felt, you know what, I feel like I have some street credibility. I am going to join the financial advice profession. So there I was with a 3-year-old— not even 3 years old, almost 3 years old— and a 6-month-old where I said, I’m going to join the profession. So For those people who don’t know me, who think that I may be meek and weak, they don’t understand that I passed 4 tests in 6 weeks with a child who wasn’t even 3 and a child who wasn’t even 6 months old. That takes a lot of determination. So I tell people, just me being in the profession, I already feel like I had to overcome so much. And I tell people, please don’t underestimate people who seem a little bit quiet. Because I’m the type of person where I’m just kind of taking everything in and observing the world. So that’s my story about— I liked what I did, but I felt like something was missing. And I’m so glad that I just took the time to pause, look around the world around me, and be like, you know what, let me learn more about the financial planning profession. And that’s what I did.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, that’s funny. I don’t think anybody would call you weak or meek today, but I can understand that maybe you felt you were perceived that way. And it’s interesting because I do think there’s a lot more learning around this, you know, the concept Susan Cain, Quiet, around introverts and the role they play. And it’s not even if someone is introverted in every setting, but maybe the desire to take things in. And how did you feel back then that suited you to developing business? Because obviously within financial advice, there is the advice component and there is the growing the business component. How did you develop those chops, I suppose, or that skill?
Rita: Oh, sure. So this is what’s interesting. I know that sometimes these practices still persist where someone will ask you, who do you know? And you make a list of friends and family. And I remember someone asked me, who do you know? And I think I had 2 or 3 names. They’re like, you don’t know any other people? I’m like, look at me. I have 2 kids, like, under 3. My daughter isn’t even 3. They’re like, what about your parents? I’m like, my dad doesn’t even live in this country. My dad lives in Taiwan. He’s on a long-term consulting project. And the sales manager looked at me like, how are you going to grow your business? I was like, well, I guess I’m just going to have to pick up the phone and make phone calls. Believe it or not, my first year I acquired 33 clients. 31 were from strangers, 32 was from one of the names on my list, and 33 was from my dad. So how did I acquire clients? You know what? I am multiracial, I’m multicultural. I would say My cooking is not my best suit. However, my ability to listen, relate, and connect with people is off the charts because growing up, my grandmother would speak to me in Mandarin. I’d answer in English. I’d go to Mandarin language school. And then there was a period in time where I went to classrooms, not in this country, where I didn’t understand anything in the classroom, but I could observe. I could read what was on the chalkboard and I could listen. And so those are all really good skills for a newbie advisor, the ability to listen and connect. And I know that it was hard. However, I’m the type of person where I’m incredibly disciplined and focused. Even if I hate doing something, I tell myself, okay, even though you don’t like doing this, you have to be the best at this. You have to do your best. And so before phone session, I would walk— this is too funny to be able to do this— I used to walk and get an iced mocha with whipped cream. Now I know that’s a lot of sugar and caffeine, and then you also have the whipped cream. But the thing is, I drink this before a phone session. I had high energy, and it sounded like I really wanted to make these phone calls. That’s half the battle. When you have a smile on your voice and you sound energetic and upbeat, And you have a name like Margarita. I mean, you keep people to like laugh and be like, oh, Margarita, well, I’ll have one of those. And then they warm up to you and you just ask questions and you don’t pester or pry and you build the connection with people. So I would say that I’m not the best salesperson by any means. I am very good at listening. Asking questions and following up. And that’s what really helped me build my confidence.
Aoifinn Devitt: Fascinating. I will bear in mind the secret to making the phone call and firing oneself up. But so that’s you entering the wealth management profession. Couldn’t you now comment on the profession itself? How do you think that has evolved since you joined? Do you think it has become more centered around this human connection that you mentioned Has it become more transactional? Is your way a little bit more rare? What would your observations on that be?
Rita: So I am really excited about what I see in wealth management, financial advice profession. If we talk about the CFP population, so the number of certified financial planner professionals, we just crossed 100,000. I’m seeing more people under 30 earn marks, meaning the growth rate is faster than we’ve seen in a long time. I’m seeing more women, I’m seeing more people of racially and ethnically diverse backgrounds pursue CFP® certification and join the profession. So for that, I am very optimistic. I do think it’s very important though not to just bring people into the profession, but also help them feel welcome, supported, and included. I’m liking what I’m seeing. Of course I am. It has evolved. And that makes me very proud. This is what I told people. I’m the type of person— I’m working in the profession, but I wanted to leave this profession better for others. It sounds like I’m dying, but I’m not. I was not willing to wait to do that. I’m like, you know what? I’m going to work in this profession, and I’m also going to support, mentor, advocate for people along the way. Sometimes I can feel a little bit overwhelmed, but I also know what really drives me when I feel tired is the emails I get, the message I get. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. Just being that connector, listening to people and supporting them. So for that, I’m very optimistic, and I just think that this is a really amazing opportunity for people to make a difference.
Aoifinn Devitt: And when you think about the RIA of the future, what does that look like to you? It’s a quite a fragmented industry right now. And even though we mentioned the shift towards becoming more diverse and human-centric, there’s still advantages to scale and having centralized, say, investment services or trading or other HR functions, et cetera. So advisors like you can keep with that connecting piece. How do you think the industry will evolve? We’re thinking also about the private equity backing that’s out there. Do you see the future REA landscape will look a lot different?
Rita: It’s interesting about private equity. We do need investments to grow and scale. I do think that it is going to be important to have different business models and different compensation models. And I’m not just referring to fee versus commission, I’m talking about fee for advice. It could be subscription, it could be engagement, it could be module-based. People might call it like life coaching. Yes, of course, there’s that element to that, but there’s also different types of help that people need. So as an example, like financial caregiving, maybe your parents have a money manager that they like, but they need help with managing their affairs. They don’t want to necessarily outsource that to someone who pays their bills, but How do you put systems and support structure in place to support the parents? Which, by the way, makes good business sense because the parents aren’t going to be on planet Earth forever, and you’re building a connection with the next generation. I’m also seeing the need for an IRA Future Can think about programs for the next generation to learn about money and wealth. The best thing that you can do for a parent is help their child. And sometimes kids don’t want to listen to their parents, right? However, hearing from somebody else about enrolling in employee benefits or setting up a Roth IRA or student loans— so I think the IA Future can be creative in the services they’re offering. It could be on equity compensation, employee benefits, not everyone wants to turn over the management of their portfolio. So if that’s the only way you’re allowing people to access your services and pay for your services, you may not have the opportunity to serve clients, help them grow the wealth, manage the wealth, and then retain the wealth. So I think there’s a lot of opportunities for the RIA of the future.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s fascinating. Just to think even about that module delivery. I suppose the concern is around the amount of free advice that’s out there. But then I suppose we have to question the origins, the veracity of some of that advice, the motivation of that advice. Is it just sponsorship? And then of course, the fact that most free advice on the internet, you have to comb through a million ads to actually get to the meat of the issue. So perhaps there is still a market to pay for that advice out there. In your case in particular, Blue Ocean Wealth Management, what is on your clients’ minds? What topics do you find yourself coming back to over and over?
Rita: So I would say if we’re talking about people who are already retired, they are worried about— this is what my client said to me. He’s like, I know I don’t want to outlive my savings, but who would ever thought that living too long is a risk? But I understand. So for clients who are already retired, they’re worried about longevity risk because many of my clients, people who ask me to describe their clients, they are very healthy, active, and fit. We have people who go skiing and play golf like within the same day. We have people who have city bikes and mountain bikes. We have people in their 70s who are working with strength and conditioning coaches. So these clients are healthy. They’re most worried about longevity risk, long-term care, about outliving their savings, right? They have planned and they have protection in place, but still it does like, even if they’re okay, they’re worried about their extended family. Then you have people like me who are Gen X. They’ve saved, but they want to make sure that their kids can launch. I mean, me, I’m worried, are my children going to be able to buy a home if that’s what they want to do? If they choose not to, that’s on them. What about that? And then people who are older Gen Z or millennials, just balancing competing needs and priorities. I mean, I think that comes across for everybody, but people who are, I’d say, anywhere from 5 to 15 years out, they’re worried about balancing the various priorities and navigating. Do I work for a startup where there’s more risk but no benefits, or do I stay in this secure job I mean, these are things that do keep people up at night, and these are things that financial planning— financial planning cannot help. I can’t tell people what to do based on their values or passions and priorities, but what financial planning can do for them is clarify how much they need for them to be able to pursue their passions and priorities. And I’d say at the end of the day, people just want to know, what should I be doing can I do what today to make sure that I’m on track for my goals? So I’d say universally that’s what people are most concerned about, but obviously based on your stage and age of life, that’s of most concern.
Aoifinn Devitt: And you have a fun podcast. No pressure. Here I am interviewing a fellow podcast host called Margaritas with Margarita, a fun name. What kind of topics do you cover on that and what kind of response have you had?
Rita: So I actually like with hosting too. So the first one was Margaritas with Margarita. It’s a play on my name and it’s personal finance happy hour. There’s a lot of advisors that tune into that. And then there’s Money Minute with Margarita, which is more global. And that is for more business. So there’s topics related to money that we don’t necessarily think about. So here’s what I mean. Couples and money. How do you address aging and talking to your parents? So these are really good question, and listeners like tuning in to hear how other people are handling it. So I didn’t think anybody listened, but I guess they do. They’re like, well, I really like what you said, how you can nudge your parents to plan, because sometimes people don’t plan because it’s not pleasant. But then when you approach these conversations from a place of care, people will turn around. And even someone from college said to me, He’s not a client, so it’s okay that he texted me. He texted me. He’s like, Ritu, when you were a freshman in college, I always thought you were really smart. And I was like, well, that’s good. But now I really think you’re smart. I did exactly what you said when I was talking to my mom, and it totally works. And I was like, so you just tell your parents that Mommy and Daddy, we want to do what it is that you want. I know this is difficult, but it’d be inappropriate for us to decide what you want to do. You don’t need to make these decisions tomorrow, but help us help you. And remember, we love you and we know this is hard. And he’s like, you know what? I did it with my mom and it was so well received. So these are the types of things that people are really enjoying listening to. Also, how do you talk to your spouse or partner about money, kids and money? So all these topics that can be awkward and uncomfortable, but how we make the uncomfortable comfortable. I think that’s been really well received.
Aoifinn Devitt: So interesting. And so really resonates, I think, in terms of overcoming taboos and giving the comfort, the space to do that is so key. I’d love to talk also about some of the work you do around diversity. And we could talk about women in this as well as the Asian population, given the work you do with Authentic Asian. Again, you said you’re encouraged by the changes you see in the profession and in the community. And of course, that’s not just on the client side, but the advisor side as well. The whole place is becoming more inclusive. I suppose, what do you do in particular that you find is helpful there? Do you have group discussions, affinity groups? Do you recruit, help with recruiting, help with mentorship?
Rita: So what I do is I try to make myself available to individuals who are interested in the profession. Sometimes I might do it in a group setting, and other times I just say, hey, if you have any questions, you want to reach out, It’s been very well received because sometimes people want to ask a question, but they prefer to ask it in a more private setting. I think mentorship is important. We also talk about sponsorship, right? The other thing that I think is key, there’s a connection between mentorship and sponsorship, and sponsorship, you usually see that within an organization. I think one of the things that I’ve encouraged other people to do is be that connector. There’s a bridge between mentorship and sponsorship, but if you know of somebody, making that introduction, because people who aren’t already in the profession may not know the things that we take for granted. So whether that is an email introduction to someone or sharing a link to a podcast or inviting them to an event with you, Now that we’re no longer on lockdown and people are gathering at events, what I do is I might invite someone to an event with me, and if I can’t be at that event, I will coordinate and I’ll make sure that they have like a buddy to greet them. This is something that I’ve actually taught my kids. They are not in the profession. Never want anybody to sit at a conference or an event alone. I want them to remember that Margarita introduced them and they left this event with 3 new names and 3 new friends. So when they come back, they don’t feel alone. And this has been very well received. The other thing that I also do to support the profession is for people who are younger and newer to the profession. I said younger and newer because there could be people that are newer to the profession that may not be younger. So that’s why I say younger and newer to the profession. We talked about being that connector, but also asking them how you can best support them, whether that’s like writing a letter of recommendation for an industry award, nominating them, even if they don’t win, the fact that you have been intentional and proactive in supporting them. And when they do win, it makes you feel good because you’ve contributed to their success. So that’s what I would say. It’s very important. There’s one thing I can say to people, We all can do a little bit to make a difference, and I want you all to have the abundance mentality. Me taking the time to write a letter of recommendation for someone else so they have this opportunity is not taking anything away from me. If anything, it’s actually elevating the profession because it’s creating a culture of giving and support.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting because all of that, that wraparound, that little extra piece you speak about, it reflects to me the importance you put on following up before. Because following up is that extra piece at the end of an interaction that often gets forgotten. And you actually need no training in that. It’s the most obvious natural closing of a relationship that should happen. And I’ve never heard anyone say before that they pay attention to ensure that nobody is sitting alone at an event and that they feel included at the event. But so many people would simply stop at inviting someone to the event. But it’s the lack of follow-up then can make the vast difference between the event being a warm success or something that makes them feel excluded or less a part. So really interesting how that little gesture can make such a difference. I’d love to ask also, speaking of gestures that make a difference, so you have many board roles and very involved in many industry organizations. Given that many of us would like to sit on more boards and see that as a way of giving back, what do you think makes a good board director or chair in your view?
Rita: Sure, thank you for the question. The first thing I would say is thinking strategically and taking the time to understand the organization. That’s the first thing. The second thing is once you think strategically and you understand the organization, think about the unique skills or talents you have, right? And then also think about your areas of interest. I think that’s all really foundational. And then once you’re on the board, recognize that you speak as one voice. So once a decision is made, it’s important to have unity in that decision. It takes time to get there. I talk about myself, right? I remember I interviewed for a board position, and they’re like, why you? What makes you so great? And I was like, well, first of all, I don’t think I’m so great, but the reason why I’m here— I was like, because if I came here and thought that I told you I think I’m so great, you’d think I’m arrogant, and you’re like, oh, she’s arrogant. I said, but let me tell you what I really believe that I can bring to the table here. It’s my ability to relate and connect. I bring people into rooms. I connect people, and I feel like that’s what our profession needs. And I do this every day, even when I go to events. The other thing that I think sold them— I was like, I’m actually an introvert. I’ve taken personality tests, and I actually lean slightly more towards introversion, but that doesn’t mean I don’t talk to people. I’ll come to an event, and it’s not cheesy. I’ll introduce myself, and once people do that, they’ll see that 4 other people introduced myself. I was like, so that’s exactly why you need me in this room. And I did get the board position, not because I was arrogant. I was like, here’s what I can do, and here’s what I have done, and here is what I will do for you. And so I think that that comes across as sincere and genuine. But don’t think that you want to just be on the board to put it on your resume, but think about the mission of the organization, the strategy, and how you can best support that.
Aoifinn Devitt: Wonderful. Well, I’d like to come to some personal reflections now. So we know we’ve had some, quite a lot of reflection already around the personality that works well in certain circumstances and how you can make a difference. We talked, it’s been a very positive trajectory as we’ve discussed, but not without its hardships at the beginning. Were there any particular setbacks or challenges that you experienced in your trajectory so far that you learned lessons from?
Rita: Sure. So the first thing that I learned is to advocate for myself. It wasn’t easy. I had to advocate for myself, and I was very careful how I went about it. So here’s what I mean. I told you when I first joined the profession, my eldest daughter was not even 3, and my son wasn’t even 6 months old, and I hadn’t even had my third kid. I knew that there was really nobody who looked like me. I’m not just talking about age, race, ethnicity, gender, right? I didn’t see any working moms. I didn’t see any working moms of racial or cultural ethnic diversity. But there were times when I encountered difficulty. So here’s what I mean. The sales manager said to me, he’s like, you’re a lousy financial advisor. You might want to rethink this. You spend too much time asking questions, listening. Now I didn’t cry. I didn’t mouth back. I just kind of was quiet. And this is the power of being quiet and not reacting. I just took it all in. And I thought about it. And I didn’t think about it where I was angry, where I let it eat at me. I really reflected. That’s who I am. I reflected. And I said, you know what? He is right. I am lousy for what he wants me to be. I will never be loud, pushy, aggressive. So he’s right. His perception of what a successful financial advisor looks like and sounds like and acts like, I will never live up to that. He’s right. I’m lousy. However, for what I want to be, I am who I am. And that’s when I realized that we both can be right about the same thing. But it was very, very difficult for me. I’m not going to deny it. There were times when, like, I felt all alone. I didn’t want my family to know what I was experiencing. And I kind of just, you know, I was like, I can’t let people down. I need to be successful, not for me, but for my clients and for the people who come after me. So I have to be strong and I have to get through this. I’m not just being successful for me, but I want people to know that people who look like me whose experiences are like me can still be successful in this profession too. So yes, it was very difficult, but I knew that once I changed the mindset, I wasn’t combative and I leaned into my inner strength. I’m like, my strength is the ability to relate and connect with people. I’m not pushy. He’s right. Like, I’m lousy. But guess what? I’m right too. And I would say that that was hard.
Aoifinn Devitt: Amazing self-reflection to do that and not to be combative, as you said, to push back. Besides somebody like that who clearly did have an influence on you because he caused you to reflect, were there any mentors that had maybe a positive influence that were the role model that you’re seeking now to be to others?
Rita: Absolutely. So people always ask about mentorship, and mentorship can be formal or it can be informal. It can just be organic. So one of my mentors graduated from a university, University of Maryland College Park, and was in a co-ed service fraternity as I was, just different generation. And he took the time to give me career advice. And here’s what he told me. There’s 3 things. He said, first, Rita, I know you’re very busy, but I need you to join the professional associations. “now when I say you join, you’re not just going to pay your dues. You need to get involved.” I was like, “Okay.” Then he’s like, “I know you love to read. I want you to keep on reading. The other thing I want you to do is I want you, even if your opinion is different, to reach out to reporters and journalists and be positive. Tell them how much you like what they wrote, right? And if there’s something you feel like they missed, do it in a way that’s nice.” I followed his advice. And then he said, “Remember that I told you I read? I know you love to read. You read like a machine, Rita.” I need you to read what your clients are reading, whether you agree with it or not. So he told me all those things, and I did all of them. Then there was another mentor. When I had joined the professional association, he saw that I was really good with people. He invited me to serve on the board of directors, and I said to him, I said, you know, I just passed the CFP exam. This was almost 20 years ago. Do you think I’m qualified? And he said this, and this is what I tell people. He saw something in me that I didn’t see in myself. I was thinking that I wasn’t qualified because I had literally just taken the CFP exam and you have to go through this background check to be able to use the marks. He’s like, you’ll be fine. You’re the type of leader that our organization needs at this time. So those two mentors definitely helped me and I tried to be that person to people who reach out. The other thing I tell about mentorship is they were older white men, and their story and their journey was a little bit different, but both of them were really mindful of knowing that what they did might not work for me, but hey, here’s 3 things that you can do that will be helpful for you. So you can join an association. I know you like to read, Rita, continue reading. I know that you like writing, reach out to those people. Another one is like, you’re really good in bringing people together, so I’m going to invite you to serve on this board. Your job is to be membership director. All you need to do is talk to people and bring people into the chapter. And both of them like really helped my confidence because I’m like, even though like I’m newer to the profession, I have something of value to give. And so I always try to see that in others. And create opportunities for others.
Aoifinn Devitt: You certainly do pass it on. Well, closing thoughts. My last question is around any key piece of advice. You seem to have got lots, and we’ve already shared a lot in here. Any one thing maybe that you could tell your younger self? Any word of wisdom to leave us with?
Rita: Oh, sure. Absolutely. So I sometimes I was afraid to ask for help. Asking for help is not a sign of weakness, right? Sometimes, especially I can say this My dad was born in China, left China for Taiwan, worked so hard to get to America. Yes, many people helped him along the way, but sometimes we feel that if we ask for help, it’s a sign of weakness. My dad didn’t tell me not to ask for help. That’s not where I’m going with this, but sometimes there are cultural perceptions of how we grew up. But just remember, when you accept help, you don’t have to do everything that person is telling you, but when you don’t accept help, you are depriving someone of the opportunity to help you. And as much as you can benefit from the help, that person benefits as well. So that’s something that I learned early on, and I wish I could have told myself early because I was scared, rightfully so. I didn’t see anybody like me. I didn’t want people to think I was incompetent, incapable. But once I realized, I was like, hey, you know, there’s lots of people who want to help you. And it’s okay to be open to their help. You don’t have to implement their help, but at least be open, have open heart and mind to their help. So that’s what I would tell myself.
Aoifinn Devitt: I love it. Well, I think you used the word meek earlier and it brought to mind the expression, the meek shall inherit the earth, because I do think that this quiet power that you have expressed through your career and how it has worked so well for you and also by association for so many others that you’ve had contact with, and now hopefully all the listeners of this podcast too. It has been so powerful to hear how you have forged and made a, a career for yourself within financial planning, and thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
Rita: Thank you so much for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to the 50 Faces Podcast. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring investors on their personal journeys, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Aoifinn Devitt: This episode is supported by PIMCO, a global leader in active fixed income with deep expertise across public and private markets. PIMCO invests their clients’ capital in income and credit opportunities that span the liquidity spectrum, leveraging their decades of experience navigating complex debt markets. Their flexible capital base and deep relationships with issuers have helped them become one of the world’s largest providers of traditional and alternative investment solutions a valued financing partner. Visit pimco.com to learn more.
Rita: It’s my ability to relate and connect. I bring people into rooms. I connect people, and I feel like that’s what our profession needs. And I do this every day, even when I go to an event. Hi, I’m Aoifinn.
Aoifinn Devitt: Devitt, and welcome to the 50 Faces Podcast, a podcast committed to revealing the richness and diversity of the world of investment by focusing on its people and their stories. I’m joined today by Marguerite Cheng, who is CEO of Blue Ocean Global Wealth based in the Washington, DC area, as well as being a founding member of Kiplinger Advisor Collective and the Authentic Asian. A keen runner, she was co-founder of 261 Fearless, a global nonprofit organization that uses running as a vehicle to empower and unite women, as well as Girls on the Run, where she’s a soulmate. She’s also a podcast host of Margaritas with Margarita podcast, where she shares financial literacy and financial planning advice. Welcome, Rita. Thanks for joining me today.
Rita: Thank you so much for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, you have an extensive resume with many chapters within the field of wealth management. Can you briefly walk us through your path to here?
Rita: Absolutely. So I graduated with double undergraduate degrees in East Asian language and literature and finance, and it is actually the East Asian language and literature degree that helped me secure my first job in finance. I had the opportunity to work at a Japanese securities firm, and in this role, my job was to read financial statements, work with the analyst team, and write summaries in English. So in this job, I learned how to write in a clear, concise, compliant manner. I did that in my 20s, and it was time to come home to the United States and complete my second degree. And during my time at the brokerage firm, I learned a lot, but I realized something was missing. It seemed very transactional. And while it was fast-paced and I liked learning, I realized that the discipline of personal financial planning more appealed to me. However, I recognized in my 20s, who was going to take me seriously? What does this person know about retirement? So during that time, I put my head down. I read every book I could on personal finance. I helped my husband prepare for the CPA exam because in school I studied accounting and finance, but eventually I just earned my degree in finance. Then we got married, bought a house, had 2 kids. It was at that point in time where I felt, you know what, I feel like I have some street credibility. I am going to join the financial advice profession. So there I was with a 3-year-old— not even 3 years old, almost 3 years old— and a 6-month-old where I said, I’m going to join the profession. So For those people who don’t know me, who think that I may be meek and weak, they don’t understand that I passed 4 tests in 6 weeks with a child who wasn’t even 3 and a child who wasn’t even 6 months old. That takes a lot of determination. So I tell people, just me being in the profession, I already feel like I had to overcome so much. And I tell people, please don’t underestimate people who seem a little bit quiet. Because I’m the type of person where I’m just kind of taking everything in and observing the world. So that’s my story about— I liked what I did, but I felt like something was missing. And I’m so glad that I just took the time to pause, look around the world around me, and be like, you know what, let me learn more about the financial planning profession. And that’s what I did.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, that’s funny. I don’t think anybody would call you weak or meek today, but I can understand that maybe you felt you were perceived that way. And it’s interesting because I do think there’s a lot more learning around this, you know, the concept Susan Cain, Quiet, around introverts and the role they play. And it’s not even if someone is introverted in every setting, but maybe the desire to take things in. And how did you feel back then that suited you to developing business? Because obviously within financial advice, there is the advice component and there is the growing the business component. How did you develop those chops, I suppose, or that skill?
Rita: Oh, sure. So this is what’s interesting. I know that sometimes these practices still persist where someone will ask you, who do you know? And you make a list of friends and family. And I remember someone asked me, who do you know? And I think I had 2 or 3 names. They’re like, you don’t know any other people? I’m like, look at me. I have 2 kids, like, under 3. My daughter isn’t even 3. They’re like, what about your parents? I’m like, my dad doesn’t even live in this country. My dad lives in Taiwan. He’s on a long-term consulting project. And the sales manager looked at me like, how are you going to grow your business? I was like, well, I guess I’m just going to have to pick up the phone and make phone calls. Believe it or not, my first year I acquired 33 clients. 31 were from strangers, 32 was from one of the names on my list, and 33 was from my dad. So how did I acquire clients? You know what? I am multiracial, I’m multicultural. I would say My cooking is not my best suit. However, my ability to listen, relate, and connect with people is off the charts because growing up, my grandmother would speak to me in Mandarin. I’d answer in English. I’d go to Mandarin language school. And then there was a period in time where I went to classrooms, not in this country, where I didn’t understand anything in the classroom, but I could observe. I could read what was on the chalkboard and I could listen. And so those are all really good skills for a newbie advisor, the ability to listen and connect. And I know that it was hard. However, I’m the type of person where I’m incredibly disciplined and focused. Even if I hate doing something, I tell myself, okay, even though you don’t like doing this, you have to be the best at this. You have to do your best. And so before phone session, I would walk— this is too funny to be able to do this— I used to walk and get an iced mocha with whipped cream. Now I know that’s a lot of sugar and caffeine, and then you also have the whipped cream. But the thing is, I drink this before a phone session. I had high energy, and it sounded like I really wanted to make these phone calls. That’s half the battle. When you have a smile on your voice and you sound energetic and upbeat, And you have a name like Margarita. I mean, you keep people to like laugh and be like, oh, Margarita, well, I’ll have one of those. And then they warm up to you and you just ask questions and you don’t pester or pry and you build the connection with people. So I would say that I’m not the best salesperson by any means. I am very good at listening. Asking questions and following up. And that’s what really helped me build my confidence.
Aoifinn Devitt: Fascinating. I will bear in mind the secret to making the phone call and firing oneself up. But so that’s you entering the wealth management profession. Couldn’t you now comment on the profession itself? How do you think that has evolved since you joined? Do you think it has become more centered around this human connection that you mentioned Has it become more transactional? Is your way a little bit more rare? What would your observations on that be?
Rita: So I am really excited about what I see in wealth management, financial advice profession. If we talk about the CFP population, so the number of certified financial planner professionals, we just crossed 100,000. I’m seeing more people under 30 earn marks, meaning the growth rate is faster than we’ve seen in a long time. I’m seeing more women, I’m seeing more people of racially and ethnically diverse backgrounds pursue CFP® certification and join the profession. So for that, I am very optimistic. I do think it’s very important though not to just bring people into the profession, but also help them feel welcome, supported, and included. I’m liking what I’m seeing. Of course I am. It has evolved. And that makes me very proud. This is what I told people. I’m the type of person— I’m working in the profession, but I wanted to leave this profession better for others. It sounds like I’m dying, but I’m not. I was not willing to wait to do that. I’m like, you know what? I’m going to work in this profession, and I’m also going to support, mentor, advocate for people along the way. Sometimes I can feel a little bit overwhelmed, but I also know what really drives me when I feel tired is the emails I get, the message I get. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. Just being that connector, listening to people and supporting them. So for that, I’m very optimistic, and I just think that this is a really amazing opportunity for people to make a difference.
Aoifinn Devitt: And when you think about the RIA of the future, what does that look like to you? It’s a quite a fragmented industry right now. And even though we mentioned the shift towards becoming more diverse and human-centric, there’s still advantages to scale and having centralized, say, investment services or trading or other HR functions, et cetera. So advisors like you can keep with that connecting piece. How do you think the industry will evolve? We’re thinking also about the private equity backing that’s out there. Do you see the future REA landscape will look a lot different?
Rita: It’s interesting about private equity. We do need investments to grow and scale. I do think that it is going to be important to have different business models and different compensation models. And I’m not just referring to fee versus commission, I’m talking about fee for advice. It could be subscription, it could be engagement, it could be module-based. People might call it like life coaching. Yes, of course, there’s that element to that, but there’s also different types of help that people need. So as an example, like financial caregiving, maybe your parents have a money manager that they like, but they need help with managing their affairs. They don’t want to necessarily outsource that to someone who pays their bills, but How do you put systems and support structure in place to support the parents? Which, by the way, makes good business sense because the parents aren’t going to be on planet Earth forever, and you’re building a connection with the next generation. I’m also seeing the need for an IRA Future Can think about programs for the next generation to learn about money and wealth. The best thing that you can do for a parent is help their child. And sometimes kids don’t want to listen to their parents, right? However, hearing from somebody else about enrolling in employee benefits or setting up a Roth IRA or student loans— so I think the IA Future can be creative in the services they’re offering. It could be on equity compensation, employee benefits, not everyone wants to turn over the management of their portfolio. So if that’s the only way you’re allowing people to access your services and pay for your services, you may not have the opportunity to serve clients, help them grow the wealth, manage the wealth, and then retain the wealth. So I think there’s a lot of opportunities for the RIA of the future.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s fascinating. Just to think even about that module delivery. I suppose the concern is around the amount of free advice that’s out there. But then I suppose we have to question the origins, the veracity of some of that advice, the motivation of that advice. Is it just sponsorship? And then of course, the fact that most free advice on the internet, you have to comb through a million ads to actually get to the meat of the issue. So perhaps there is still a market to pay for that advice out there. In your case in particular, Blue Ocean Wealth Management, what is on your clients’ minds? What topics do you find yourself coming back to over and over?
Rita: So I would say if we’re talking about people who are already retired, they are worried about— this is what my client said to me. He’s like, I know I don’t want to outlive my savings, but who would ever thought that living too long is a risk? But I understand. So for clients who are already retired, they’re worried about longevity risk because many of my clients, people who ask me to describe their clients, they are very healthy, active, and fit. We have people who go skiing and play golf like within the same day. We have people who have city bikes and mountain bikes. We have people in their 70s who are working with strength and conditioning coaches. So these clients are healthy. They’re most worried about longevity risk, long-term care, about outliving their savings, right? They have planned and they have protection in place, but still it does like, even if they’re okay, they’re worried about their extended family. Then you have people like me who are Gen X. They’ve saved, but they want to make sure that their kids can launch. I mean, me, I’m worried, are my children going to be able to buy a home if that’s what they want to do? If they choose not to, that’s on them. What about that? And then people who are older Gen Z or millennials, just balancing competing needs and priorities. I mean, I think that comes across for everybody, but people who are, I’d say, anywhere from 5 to 15 years out, they’re worried about balancing the various priorities and navigating. Do I work for a startup where there’s more risk but no benefits, or do I stay in this secure job I mean, these are things that do keep people up at night, and these are things that financial planning— financial planning cannot help. I can’t tell people what to do based on their values or passions and priorities, but what financial planning can do for them is clarify how much they need for them to be able to pursue their passions and priorities. And I’d say at the end of the day, people just want to know, what should I be doing can I do what today to make sure that I’m on track for my goals? So I’d say universally that’s what people are most concerned about, but obviously based on your stage and age of life, that’s of most concern.
Aoifinn Devitt: And you have a fun podcast. No pressure. Here I am interviewing a fellow podcast host called Margaritas with Margarita, a fun name. What kind of topics do you cover on that and what kind of response have you had?
Rita: So I actually like with hosting too. So the first one was Margaritas with Margarita. It’s a play on my name and it’s personal finance happy hour. There’s a lot of advisors that tune into that. And then there’s Money Minute with Margarita, which is more global. And that is for more business. So there’s topics related to money that we don’t necessarily think about. So here’s what I mean. Couples and money. How do you address aging and talking to your parents? So these are really good question, and listeners like tuning in to hear how other people are handling it. So I didn’t think anybody listened, but I guess they do. They’re like, well, I really like what you said, how you can nudge your parents to plan, because sometimes people don’t plan because it’s not pleasant. But then when you approach these conversations from a place of care, people will turn around. And even someone from college said to me, He’s not a client, so it’s okay that he texted me. He texted me. He’s like, Ritu, when you were a freshman in college, I always thought you were really smart. And I was like, well, that’s good. But now I really think you’re smart. I did exactly what you said when I was talking to my mom, and it totally works. And I was like, so you just tell your parents that Mommy and Daddy, we want to do what it is that you want. I know this is difficult, but it’d be inappropriate for us to decide what you want to do. You don’t need to make these decisions tomorrow, but help us help you. And remember, we love you and we know this is hard. And he’s like, you know what? I did it with my mom and it was so well received. So these are the types of things that people are really enjoying listening to. Also, how do you talk to your spouse or partner about money, kids and money? So all these topics that can be awkward and uncomfortable, but how we make the uncomfortable comfortable. I think that’s been really well received.
Aoifinn Devitt: So interesting. And so really resonates, I think, in terms of overcoming taboos and giving the comfort, the space to do that is so key. I’d love to talk also about some of the work you do around diversity. And we could talk about women in this as well as the Asian population, given the work you do with Authentic Asian. Again, you said you’re encouraged by the changes you see in the profession and in the community. And of course, that’s not just on the client side, but the advisor side as well. The whole place is becoming more inclusive. I suppose, what do you do in particular that you find is helpful there? Do you have group discussions, affinity groups? Do you recruit, help with recruiting, help with mentorship?
Rita: So what I do is I try to make myself available to individuals who are interested in the profession. Sometimes I might do it in a group setting, and other times I just say, hey, if you have any questions, you want to reach out, It’s been very well received because sometimes people want to ask a question, but they prefer to ask it in a more private setting. I think mentorship is important. We also talk about sponsorship, right? The other thing that I think is key, there’s a connection between mentorship and sponsorship, and sponsorship, you usually see that within an organization. I think one of the things that I’ve encouraged other people to do is be that connector. There’s a bridge between mentorship and sponsorship, but if you know of somebody, making that introduction, because people who aren’t already in the profession may not know the things that we take for granted. So whether that is an email introduction to someone or sharing a link to a podcast or inviting them to an event with you, Now that we’re no longer on lockdown and people are gathering at events, what I do is I might invite someone to an event with me, and if I can’t be at that event, I will coordinate and I’ll make sure that they have like a buddy to greet them. This is something that I’ve actually taught my kids. They are not in the profession. Never want anybody to sit at a conference or an event alone. I want them to remember that Margarita introduced them and they left this event with 3 new names and 3 new friends. So when they come back, they don’t feel alone. And this has been very well received. The other thing that I also do to support the profession is for people who are younger and newer to the profession. I said younger and newer because there could be people that are newer to the profession that may not be younger. So that’s why I say younger and newer to the profession. We talked about being that connector, but also asking them how you can best support them, whether that’s like writing a letter of recommendation for an industry award, nominating them, even if they don’t win, the fact that you have been intentional and proactive in supporting them. And when they do win, it makes you feel good because you’ve contributed to their success. So that’s what I would say. It’s very important. There’s one thing I can say to people, We all can do a little bit to make a difference, and I want you all to have the abundance mentality. Me taking the time to write a letter of recommendation for someone else so they have this opportunity is not taking anything away from me. If anything, it’s actually elevating the profession because it’s creating a culture of giving and support.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting because all of that, that wraparound, that little extra piece you speak about, it reflects to me the importance you put on following up before. Because following up is that extra piece at the end of an interaction that often gets forgotten. And you actually need no training in that. It’s the most obvious natural closing of a relationship that should happen. And I’ve never heard anyone say before that they pay attention to ensure that nobody is sitting alone at an event and that they feel included at the event. But so many people would simply stop at inviting someone to the event. But it’s the lack of follow-up then can make the vast difference between the event being a warm success or something that makes them feel excluded or less a part. So really interesting how that little gesture can make such a difference. I’d love to ask also, speaking of gestures that make a difference, so you have many board roles and very involved in many industry organizations. Given that many of us would like to sit on more boards and see that as a way of giving back, what do you think makes a good board director or chair in your view?
Rita: Sure, thank you for the question. The first thing I would say is thinking strategically and taking the time to understand the organization. That’s the first thing. The second thing is once you think strategically and you understand the organization, think about the unique skills or talents you have, right? And then also think about your areas of interest. I think that’s all really foundational. And then once you’re on the board, recognize that you speak as one voice. So once a decision is made, it’s important to have unity in that decision. It takes time to get there. I talk about myself, right? I remember I interviewed for a board position, and they’re like, why you? What makes you so great? And I was like, well, first of all, I don’t think I’m so great, but the reason why I’m here— I was like, because if I came here and thought that I told you I think I’m so great, you’d think I’m arrogant, and you’re like, oh, she’s arrogant. I said, but let me tell you what I really believe that I can bring to the table here. It’s my ability to relate and connect. I bring people into rooms. I connect people, and I feel like that’s what our profession needs. And I do this every day, even when I go to events. The other thing that I think sold them— I was like, I’m actually an introvert. I’ve taken personality tests, and I actually lean slightly more towards introversion, but that doesn’t mean I don’t talk to people. I’ll come to an event, and it’s not cheesy. I’ll introduce myself, and once people do that, they’ll see that 4 other people introduced myself. I was like, so that’s exactly why you need me in this room. And I did get the board position, not because I was arrogant. I was like, here’s what I can do, and here’s what I have done, and here is what I will do for you. And so I think that that comes across as sincere and genuine. But don’t think that you want to just be on the board to put it on your resume, but think about the mission of the organization, the strategy, and how you can best support that.
Aoifinn Devitt: Wonderful. Well, I’d like to come to some personal reflections now. So we know we’ve had some, quite a lot of reflection already around the personality that works well in certain circumstances and how you can make a difference. We talked, it’s been a very positive trajectory as we’ve discussed, but not without its hardships at the beginning. Were there any particular setbacks or challenges that you experienced in your trajectory so far that you learned lessons from?
Rita: Sure. So the first thing that I learned is to advocate for myself. It wasn’t easy. I had to advocate for myself, and I was very careful how I went about it. So here’s what I mean. I told you when I first joined the profession, my eldest daughter was not even 3, and my son wasn’t even 6 months old, and I hadn’t even had my third kid. I knew that there was really nobody who looked like me. I’m not just talking about age, race, ethnicity, gender, right? I didn’t see any working moms. I didn’t see any working moms of racial or cultural ethnic diversity. But there were times when I encountered difficulty. So here’s what I mean. The sales manager said to me, he’s like, you’re a lousy financial advisor. You might want to rethink this. You spend too much time asking questions, listening. Now I didn’t cry. I didn’t mouth back. I just kind of was quiet. And this is the power of being quiet and not reacting. I just took it all in. And I thought about it. And I didn’t think about it where I was angry, where I let it eat at me. I really reflected. That’s who I am. I reflected. And I said, you know what? He is right. I am lousy for what he wants me to be. I will never be loud, pushy, aggressive. So he’s right. His perception of what a successful financial advisor looks like and sounds like and acts like, I will never live up to that. He’s right. I’m lousy. However, for what I want to be, I am who I am. And that’s when I realized that we both can be right about the same thing. But it was very, very difficult for me. I’m not going to deny it. There were times when, like, I felt all alone. I didn’t want my family to know what I was experiencing. And I kind of just, you know, I was like, I can’t let people down. I need to be successful, not for me, but for my clients and for the people who come after me. So I have to be strong and I have to get through this. I’m not just being successful for me, but I want people to know that people who look like me whose experiences are like me can still be successful in this profession too. So yes, it was very difficult, but I knew that once I changed the mindset, I wasn’t combative and I leaned into my inner strength. I’m like, my strength is the ability to relate and connect with people. I’m not pushy. He’s right. Like, I’m lousy. But guess what? I’m right too. And I would say that that was hard.
Aoifinn Devitt: Amazing self-reflection to do that and not to be combative, as you said, to push back. Besides somebody like that who clearly did have an influence on you because he caused you to reflect, were there any mentors that had maybe a positive influence that were the role model that you’re seeking now to be to others?
Rita: Absolutely. So people always ask about mentorship, and mentorship can be formal or it can be informal. It can just be organic. So one of my mentors graduated from a university, University of Maryland College Park, and was in a co-ed service fraternity as I was, just different generation. And he took the time to give me career advice. And here’s what he told me. There’s 3 things. He said, first, Rita, I know you’re very busy, but I need you to join the professional associations. “now when I say you join, you’re not just going to pay your dues. You need to get involved.” I was like, “Okay.” Then he’s like, “I know you love to read. I want you to keep on reading. The other thing I want you to do is I want you, even if your opinion is different, to reach out to reporters and journalists and be positive. Tell them how much you like what they wrote, right? And if there’s something you feel like they missed, do it in a way that’s nice.” I followed his advice. And then he said, “Remember that I told you I read? I know you love to read. You read like a machine, Rita.” I need you to read what your clients are reading, whether you agree with it or not. So he told me all those things, and I did all of them. Then there was another mentor. When I had joined the professional association, he saw that I was really good with people. He invited me to serve on the board of directors, and I said to him, I said, you know, I just passed the CFP exam. This was almost 20 years ago. Do you think I’m qualified? And he said this, and this is what I tell people. He saw something in me that I didn’t see in myself. I was thinking that I wasn’t qualified because I had literally just taken the CFP exam and you have to go through this background check to be able to use the marks. He’s like, you’ll be fine. You’re the type of leader that our organization needs at this time. So those two mentors definitely helped me and I tried to be that person to people who reach out. The other thing I tell about mentorship is they were older white men, and their story and their journey was a little bit different, but both of them were really mindful of knowing that what they did might not work for me, but hey, here’s 3 things that you can do that will be helpful for you. So you can join an association. I know you like to read, Rita, continue reading. I know that you like writing, reach out to those people. Another one is like, you’re really good in bringing people together, so I’m going to invite you to serve on this board. Your job is to be membership director. All you need to do is talk to people and bring people into the chapter. And both of them like really helped my confidence because I’m like, even though like I’m newer to the profession, I have something of value to give. And so I always try to see that in others. And create opportunities for others.
Aoifinn Devitt: You certainly do pass it on. Well, closing thoughts. My last question is around any key piece of advice. You seem to have got lots, and we’ve already shared a lot in here. Any one thing maybe that you could tell your younger self? Any word of wisdom to leave us with?
Rita: Oh, sure. Absolutely. So I sometimes I was afraid to ask for help. Asking for help is not a sign of weakness, right? Sometimes, especially I can say this My dad was born in China, left China for Taiwan, worked so hard to get to America. Yes, many people helped him along the way, but sometimes we feel that if we ask for help, it’s a sign of weakness. My dad didn’t tell me not to ask for help. That’s not where I’m going with this, but sometimes there are cultural perceptions of how we grew up. But just remember, when you accept help, you don’t have to do everything that person is telling you, but when you don’t accept help, you are depriving someone of the opportunity to help you. And as much as you can benefit from the help, that person benefits as well. So that’s something that I learned early on, and I wish I could have told myself early because I was scared, rightfully so. I didn’t see anybody like me. I didn’t want people to think I was incompetent, incapable. But once I realized, I was like, hey, you know, there’s lots of people who want to help you. And it’s okay to be open to their help. You don’t have to implement their help, but at least be open, have open heart and mind to their help. So that’s what I would tell myself.
Aoifinn Devitt: I love it. Well, I think you used the word meek earlier and it brought to mind the expression, the meek shall inherit the earth, because I do think that this quiet power that you have expressed through your career and how it has worked so well for you and also by association for so many others that you’ve had contact with, and now hopefully all the listeners of this podcast too. It has been so powerful to hear how you have forged and made a, a career for yourself within financial planning, and thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.
Rita: Thank you so much for having me.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to the 50 Faces Podcast. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring investors on their personal journeys, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
