Carolina: What I figured out is what the public companies need was a revamp in their board. The board was too conservative in some cases, or antiquated, or with a different dynamic, and they needed, you know, new life, fresh air in the board with new visions. And that’s exactly what, you know, people like me that have different experiences and backgrounds should be joining those boards to give a new life to the board. And to give new ideas.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to the 50 Faces podcast, which showcases inspiring professionals in the world of investment and beyond. By focusing on people and their stories. I’m joined today by Carolina Strobl, who is based in São Paulo and a founding partner at Antler Brazil. She’s also a founder and operational partner at Redpoint eVentures and holds a number of board roles, including public companies in Brazil. Welcome, Carolina. Thanks for joining me today.
Carolina: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure being with you today.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, we were introduced through a mutual friend of mine, and I’ve heard a great deal about your career journey and what you’re working on today. But I’d love if you could just briefly walk us through that to take us through what you studied and how you ended up in venture ultimately.
Carolina: Sure, absolutely. So actually I’m a lawyer and after working in the financial market in Brazil, I had an opportunity to work for Intel Capital. So in Intel Capital, I had a specific training on venture capital in the United States. So I lived in the US for a couple of years doing deals for Intel Capital there. And I had never done venture capital before. It was, it’s a funny story because my boss at the time, she asked me in the interview, Carolina, what do you know about venture capital, private equity, M&A? I was, well, I did a couple of M&A here in Brazil and the, you know, the financial market, but that’s it. I don’t know a lot of technology. I have never worked with this. And she was glad about it because at that point of time, this was year 2000, 2001. Here in Latin America, we didn’t have this concept of startups and a lot of proprietary technology being developed. So she liked the approach that I had to be quite frank and transparent with her. And she gave me this opportunity. So I was trained in the US, came back to Brazil, worked for Intel Capital Corp and within their executive committee approving investments in the region. And we did over 300 investments during the years that I was there for a very, very long time. After that, I joined Redpoint Ventures. Which is one of the most iconic funds in Brazil at that point of time as well. It was the most iconic one. We were doing Series A forward in Brazil, only in technology, only in scale. And we had a couple of very fortunate investments such as Happy, Creditas, GenPass, Nowell Hub, Bismu, Pipefy. So we did very well. The fund did very well, the first fund. We still have The first and the second one, they’re still ongoing and we’re finishing the exits there. And after all this experience in the later stage, I figured that I was always seeing the same pipeline. So not only the same technology, but also the same people with the same background. And that’s the reason why I decided to go back or, you know, to get my experience to the very early stage because I wanted to change the pipeline that I was looking into. So that’s when I decided to set up Antler, which is a global venture capital platform in Brazil. So it’s a local fund here in Brazil investing in the very, very early stage.
Aoifinn Devitt: Fantastic. Well, just before we move into the venture capital opportunity set in Brazil and your approach to that, just love to ask, just in terms of developing these skills, was there much of a transition from being a lawyer to being a venture capitalist, or in terms of taking risk and learning how to take risk? And I suppose what were some of the key learnings from Intel Capital?
Carolina: Well, Intel Capital is an engineer company. So coming from the financial market, I found it quite structured. So we had our processes like the deal concept meetings, the investment approval meetings. So DCM, IPA, and the way we would go through a deal in a very framework-oriented way that helped me not only to learn easier, but to understand, you know, which are the values that we can take out of this deal. From a results perspective, so very results-oriented. We would work on due diligence with the very technology strong point of view, but also looking into the structure where we could manage to make the best investment and the best financial results. So have a combination of strategic financial helped me to learn a lot or to develop the this ability of analyzing better the opportunities we had. So I think that’s one of it. Then secondly, I’m not sure if it’s only Intel, but the California or technology way of looking into things, that put me into a situation where I was confronted with the values that I knew before on the financial market. Again, because they valued, you know, the fact that I was a woman, they valued the fact that I had a different point of view. They valued the fact that I was a lawyer in the group. So they had this way of approving deals. They call it three-legged stool. So we had to look into a financial perspective, a business perspective, and the legal perspective. And if any of those three people wouldn’t approve a deal, we would have to go back and restructure the deal or not, or give up the deal. So it depended on the situation, but I felt listened and looked into in a way that I have never felt before in Brazil. That’s what I can tell you.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s a great thing to hear and also a great segue into hearing more about venture in Brazil. And if you don’t mind, if we could even broaden it to Latin America a bit more generally, as I would like to include this podcast as part of our Latin American Voices series as well. So could you paint a picture for the state of venture capital investing Brazil and even Latin America more generally as well?
Carolina: Sure. I think nowadays venture capital in Brazil is very impacted on the interest rates. And this is true in Latin America in generic terms as well. So we have less liquidity. Latin America always had less liquidity in comparison to other countries. That’s something that we have been dealing with for a while. But nowadays, I think it’s, and I’m talking about last year and not the beginning of this year. Okay. So we’ll split this a little bit because of the effect on the foreign exchange rate and the United States latest effect on foreign exchange. But in the last year, we had a lot of trouble securing more funding to Latin America. First of all, because the liquidity was not there. Secondly, because we didn’t have many exits. So our, public markets are closed somehow. We don’t see many IPOs happening in the region. Same thing in the US as well. We see less and less, and we only see the very large IPOs going out. And sometimes, you know, the companies that we invest do not reach a very large standpoint of revenue, but they stay in the middle sizes. And this middle size cannot get funded to get into new stages. That’s the vision I have. We have very strong industries in Latin America, such as fintech, healthtech, edutech, cleantech is doing pretty well. And we do have the internal markets. So Brazil is of course the largest market we have here. Mexico is a fantastic market as well. And it’s growing and getting developed. And now, at least last year, it got more money into the markets than Brazil, which was something in some of the quarters, not in the total of the year, but some of the quarters, they had more money than us, which was quite interesting to see. I didn’t see this happening for the last, you know, 15 years maybe. And that was a very interesting movement. But we see, you know, Colombia, we see other countries getting more development. We didn’t see anything in Argentina yet. We didn’t see more, a lot in Chile. This is beginning to grow, but we see Uruguay, for instance, becoming a new power in the region. And they are very much interested in startups. I’m, you know, I love Uruguay and the way they’re doing And what they’re building there for startups is just fantastic. We’ll probably hear about them in the future. As of now, specifically, since, you know, we have some allocations, some fund allocations from abroad needing to be reallocated to other countries, not only the States, we are receiving a little bit more money than usual because of that, because the foreign exchange rate in the States is a little unstable. So they are reconsidering their allocations. And even for illiquid assets, they’re looking into Latin America and specifically Brazil. And the very minimum amount they would put into our market, that means a lot for us because we’re not used to very large numbers. So this is happening right now, but it’s a momentum. It’s just, you know, just now. We don’t see whether, you know, if this is a tendency, it’s just happening right now. So technology-wise, I think we’re doing pretty well. The fact that artificial intelligence requires less money to be developed You know, at least artificial intelligence tools require less money to be developed from the beginning. That gives us a natural leverage to create products that may become global in Latin America. And that’s something that we should be looking into right now. But we have also some founders that are looking into following the flux of the capital flow, which makes sense as well, and going to the US or to the UK or to other countries, you know, to get, or even, you know, to the Middle East to get their projects funded. But the project itself, it’s not only the idea or the beginning of the execution, but the distribution and the connections of the network you have. So sometimes it’s easier for those Latin American founders to get their solution or their product being developed in the countries they are in and where they have the context, the network to get this developed. And I’m a truly believer that we can get more local products and solutions becoming global, which is something that we’re missing.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting. I’m sitting in London where one of the issues with UK venture capital is often maybe perceived gap between the venture capital ecosystem here and that that prevails in the US in terms of the maybe the support network for founders, the availability of very experienced board members, and equally to sometimes to just getting back the whole philosophy and approach to risk. And to failure. How would you say Brazil and other economies in Latin America stack up with respect to some of those factors, the ecosystem for, say, directors and experts, as well as the mindset?
Carolina: I think we have evolved a lot. I think we have better founders, better advisors, better experts. The issue is that the economic cost to stay in this industry in venture capital has to pay off. So we need the success cases, we need the exits. To bring more people in. But we have a lot of talent interested in staying and developing the industry. I’m right now speaking from an innovation hub here in Brazil, fantastic one. I see other ones growing. I see that, you know, the fintechs are growing immensely and they are beginning to create their own ecosystems. And we see all this developing, but we need to have the results. If the final results don’t come, to this industry, then we’re going to miss another cycle. We know this is a cycle industry and we have different characteristics to each of the cycles that we have lived through in Latin America. And now we have, you know, the incumbents investing more in ecosystem, the fintechs investing more in ecosystems, and we need now the market to prove that we are right. So get the final results in the market.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s very interesting. And then just speaking of the board roles yourself, so you have had a number of board roles both in public companies, as we mentioned, and on the venture side, maybe taking those two either together or separately if there are different skill sets. What are you seeking to bring to the public board roles and then on the venture side?
Carolina: Sure. I’m on the board of two public companies and one private, and I have been going through this as a career for a while. It all began because I was a board member in startups, and then I decided to learn more about, you know, boards and governance and understand better how this works in the public market, not a private market. So I went to a school here in Brazil, and I was getting ready to become a board member. It’s a certification for board member here in Brazil. And I was shocked because what they were teaching in the school, there was nothing to do with the reality of a startup and how a startup would do things. And basically I said to myself that this is not something for me. I’m not a board member after all. I discovered that I’m not a board member and I spoke out to the classroom and to the teacher at that point, to the professor at that point of time saying, you know, it’s beautiful that you’re teaching here, but I do not see a private company, a startup working this way. And by the way, I don’t see a public company working this way as well. This is not effective. This is not productive. I have this mentality, which is completely different from what you’re teaching I do not fit in. That was basically the result out of the certification. So after they finally, they got me the certification, they were gracious to give me the certification at that point of time. But because of that, I decided to get to know better the public companies versus the private companies and their needs. And what I figured out is what the public companies need was a revamp in their board. The board was too corporate. Conservatives in some cases, or antiquate, or with a different dynamic. And they needed, you know, new life, fresh air in the board with new visions. And that’s exactly what, you know, people like me that have different experiences and backgrounds should be joining those boards, you know, to give a new life to the board and to give new ideas. So it’s not uncommon when you speak to board members of public companies in the countries that I work with in Latin America, that they don’t understand artificial intelligence more profoundly, the risks, the governance requirements, or how should artificial intelligence be used actually to the results of the company. And you sometimes not even the first level of executives do understand that, but the people that work there, the workforce understands better than them. So I think that I bring— people like me, we bring different views to a board of a public company. People that have experience with startups or with private companies or with stress, you know, different sorts of stress, even in life or in your profession, we bring different views. And this is so rich, you know, the deep discussions we have from a strategic standpoint in board, they are much richer when you have different point of views. And that’s what I have been doing and, you know, loving it, not only as a career, but to the companies that I add value because the idea is that if you’re in a board, you have to add value to this company. It’s just that I feel that my experience, it’s brand new to them and that I complement the values they have already inside of a board. So I’m basically a tool to complement whatever they have there and to bring different views to the board. That’s it.
Aoifinn Devitt: I love that. And actually, it was— made me think. I mean, this doesn’t just go for Brazil. I think this is around the world. I’d say a lot of public company boards need a reboot given the urgency of AI integration. I think if you’re immersed in the area the whole time, you may expect the rest of the world has, has, has caught up in terms of at least understanding the potential for AI disruption. It seems that many traditional companies are nowhere close to catching up. And I, I like that idea of the reboot. I suppose that this, that will be a, about disseminating that kind of cultural change because I think boards probably are constituted and recruited for in a very traditional way and not just in Brazil but around the world. So may that be a, a stimulus to get more diversity in there. And in terms of the venture side, then that would be a different set of skills, I suppose. Definitely the perspective and experience, but do you find you’re used for particular types of assistance with maybe with additional fundraising, for example, on the venture boards?
Carolina: I still have some startups that I, well, I mentor several startups and I hear around, you know, 2,000 pitches per year, at least either, you know, initial pitches, you know, pitches from companies that are pivoting somehow or relearning what they have internally or the markets. So sometimes they ask me to sit on boards. And I typically say no, but to the companies that we are investors in, Antler, for instance, I do sit on the boards whenever it’s required. We invest, we just give the first check. So typically they do not have a board and they shouldn’t have a board because it’s only like a couple of people working on strategy and beginning traction. But if they are already in traction and they have other investors on the board, I eventually sit there. So I have a couple of startups that I talk to bimonthly or monthly about their strategies within the board. What I try to do is not to get this very serious or bureaucratic. It’s much more, I’m a WhatsApp away from whatever you need than anything else. That’s the kind of support that I prefer to give to startups. It’s different from a public company where we need to have the governance, the sequence, the dynamics completely different. But my startups, they are a WhatsApp away anytime.
Aoifinn Devitt: What access that is to be one WhatsApp away from, from your expertise, that extraordinarily privileged to companies. And I suppose from your vantage point, whether you’re on the board or not at these startups, certainly from your vantage point at Antler, you are seeing their, their fundraising experience. And I think that is never easy and never smooth, but I’d love to just ask whether that is improving. You mentioned a little bit about the rising interest in venture. But particularly in terms of is it evenly spread, the experience of capital raising? We experience often that, say, female founders get less funding, or there is a long tail of founders that are not getting access to funding. How do you perceive that from your vantage point?
Carolina: That’s a very interesting question because when you were talking about fundraising, of course I thought about myself first because we’re always fundraising for the fund. And in my perspective, first of all, it’s a very tough moment for, you know, venture capital funds. And we have the interest rate, which is pretty high, and you need to focus on the investors that are looking into this sort of product. But as a woman, I have to tell you, it’s much harder. Every single time I am in a room with my partners, either my partners include me in the conversation, or of course myself, if I include myself in the conversation, I’m basically ignored by many of the, many, many of the LPs to be, or, you know, the LPs that we would like to invest in the fund. And this is a feeling that I never had before because I was not as deeply involved in the fundraising more like an asset for the fundraising before, but now I’m actively fundraising. And this experience, and I have several, you know, ways of, you know, breaking the chain of not being seen or heard in a meeting or in a fundraising specifically, but that taught me a lot about how to help my female founders to get attention and to make sure that they are heard. In their meetings. And I’m very much sure it’s hard, much harder for them or for a female team to get funding than it is for the male team. They have to prove themselves much more. They have to have the evidences. They have to know the details on the numbers. They have to be wit. They have to be really present in the moment and understand the dynamic of the team that is hearing them, typically a male team. That is hearing their pitch. So I work with them very, very much on this to make sure that we try to overcome whatever we can overcome. There are things that we can control, there are things that we cannot control, and we separate those and prioritize which is the information that you need the people to take from this meeting. What are you going to focus on and make sure that you have it all. You need to be excellent, you need to know it all.
Aoifinn Devitt: That is fascinating. Just before you even used the term breaking the chain, I was thinking of what you must have to do from an action standpoint to get noticed. And I’m thinking of very intentional speaking up, just, you know, gestures around your own visibility. And it’s a lot of effort. It’s positive, intentional effort, it seems. How would you say— what have you used to break the chain, which I think is a fascinating concept?
Carolina: First of all, I’m an expert in the field. And that helps a lot. I have been going through this for ages and different cycles, and I know what I’m talking about. So that gives me the knowledge to show the people that eventually will invest in this fund that they can trust me. So what I try to do is to create trust in the meeting. So first of all, of course, I have to speak out, and of course, I have to have my partners trained on this as well, to feel, to sense when it’s important to put me in, to get me to add value to the meeting. And they help a lot with that. So by myself, it’s harder, but when you have a partner that will help you with this, that’s fantastic. And then secondly, what I try to do is create circle of trust, you know, that I am showing that I can complement the team very well and that the team that is looking into my idea it trusts what I’m telling them and trusts that I’m the right person to do the job. But so it’s basically a trust relationship that I’m trying to get out of the meeting.
Aoifinn Devitt: Very interesting. I think advice that is useful outside venture capital in every domain where women feel they are not represented or anyone feels they are not represented in a room or getting heard. I’d love to just turn to some personal reflections. You’ve mentioned your experience and the many different arenas in which you’ve worked—public, startup, law, et cetera. What were some of the highs and lows of your careers? And in terms of the lows, were there any lessons learned?
Carolina: Well, so many. So my career had highs and lows. Absolutely. The highs are often, they are tied to seeing founders succeed. You know, when I watch a company grow from a very early idea to something impactful, that gives me such a happiness, you know. Each stage, each step that this company, that the startup is taking to solve a huge problem, to become, you know, the option for the customer. And that makes me very, very happy. That’s the same with public companies as well. Each project that I’m in, that I can give them a little more information on how to become a lean startup or, you know, act as a lean startup. That makes me very happy. And the lows are part of the VC, the VC world. So not every investment will work. You invest in founders, you invest in people, and sometimes people change, market change. And sometimes you have to make very difficult decisions on where you are going to put your money, energy, interest. And this is very tough, but you know, such moments, they sort of reinforce the importance of resilience and the strategic and the long-term thinking that you have to have to become a venture capital investor.
Aoifinn Devitt: And in venture capital, we always think about mentorship and role models and guidance. Have you had any particular mentors or role models in your life? And it does not have to have to be exhaustive, just one or two names is fine in terms of them having a formative role for you.
Carolina: I think I have been very fortunate to work with lots of inspiring people throughout my career, other investors, founders, mentors, colleagues, you know, people that shaped me and helped me to evolve and to rethink business and leadership. So I’m not going to nominate them, but I had people early in my career that would support me. In a way, like when I knew nothing about venture capital, Intel Capital, I had Intel Capital, the whole Intel Capital team in the US helping me out and teaching me what VC was. So that was amazing. My boss at that point of time, you know, when she decided that I was going to be the one to enter VC, I, you know, this was amazing. And the CEOs that I have been working with, the CEOs that I have invested in, that I have been working with, and shared, you know, the beautiful moments and the worst moments of their lives, you know, their lives in business and eventually even personal, you know, having these calls at night, Carolina, something happened here, I don’t know how I’m going to deal with this. It helped me as well. So many people were part of this. My partners in Redpoint Ventures, absolutely, they are a role model in introducing me to not a corporate venture capital, but to the venture capital private world and to making sure that I was part of the team as a female. That was fantastic work as well. But the lesson that stayed with me always is the importance of being curious, intellectual curiosity, because the technology through the cycles evolved so fast and The importance of maintaining a continuous learning, a mindset that is, you know, always growing, the growth mindset, really, it’s essential. So I know that I’ll always have these people around me, and I hope that I am the same to other people in any stage of their career. So that’s why I do a lot of mentorships, and each person that reaches out to have some time with you, I have a pro bono time that I schedule in my agenda. A couple of hours per week. That’s like an objective for each year that I have. So I reach out, you know, to make sure that I talk to as many people as I can to make sure that I’m also a positive influence or a positive conversation for them as well, to give back, you know, to give back to everyone and everything that I have received.
Aoifinn Devitt: Again, a remarkable service to the industry and the next generation. My last question is around any words of wisdom, and I think we’ve already touched on a lot of your growth mindset, the way you approach decision-making, the way you ensure that your voice is heard. But if there’s any, maybe one thing you can leave us with, maybe a gem of wisdom or a creed or motto.
Carolina: I think that regarding my career, people think that careers are typically linear, or they used to be linear, right? I’m a lawyer. So after a lawyer, maybe a judge here in Brazil, it’s a typical thing. You would go for a judge or you would go for a a law firm and become a partner in a law firm. And when I decided to do something completely different, this was questioned by my friends and my family. And it wasn’t easy for me to go for a nonlinear career. And I entered in an innovation field, which is even worse because it’s nonlinear and innovation is insane. You know, they have these unexpected turns. As we’re having right now with AI, and they take you out of your safe place. And let me tell you, that’s the most amazing thing I have in my life. I’m not in a safe place. I typically go to the other side and I understand, you know, different things all the time. So I like the fact that some of the most interesting opportunities came in my life from unexpected turns in my profession and in my personal life as well. So when I got really, really sick, I had cancer a couple of years ago, that as of now, it may sound weird, but it was a present. It was a gift. I see things completely different after that. So being open to those paths, to changing the way you see the world, because that’s the only thing we can change. We can’t change the world, but the way we see the world, we can change anytime. We can’t change the world, but it gives some, it’s a it’s a lot of work and we’re working on that as well, but you can change your world and the way you see it. So this can lead you to very rewarding experiences and you should not give up, you know, you should not give this up. Life is something amazing and you should do something amazing with your life.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, what a beautiful and honest and open way to finish this podcast. What I’m hearing is the importance of agility, adaptability, flexibility and being comfortable, or letting at least sit with a tremendous amount of uncertainty. Thank you so much, Carol, for, as I mentioned a few times now, the service you were doing for the industry, for being a champion for so many different strands of this innovation journey, and for coming here and sharing your insights with us.
Carolina: Thank you so much. That was a pleasure talking to you, and you know, you’re doing a great job. I love your work, so keep doing it. Thank you.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, thank you. I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces podcast. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring professionals on their personal journeys, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Carolina: [MUSIC] [MUSIC]
Carolina: What I figured out is what the public companies need was a revamp in their board. The board was too conservative in some cases, or antiquated, or with a different dynamic, and they needed, you know, new life, fresh air in the board with new visions. And that’s exactly what, you know, people like me that have different experiences and backgrounds should be joining those boards to give a new life to the board. And to give new ideas.
Aoifinn Devitt: I’m Aoifinn Devitt, and welcome to the 50 Faces podcast, which showcases inspiring professionals in the world of investment and beyond. By focusing on people and their stories. I’m joined today by Carolina Strobl, who is based in São Paulo and a founding partner at Antler Brazil. She’s also a founder and operational partner at Redpoint eVentures and holds a number of board roles, including public companies in Brazil. Welcome, Carolina. Thanks for joining me today.
Carolina: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure being with you today.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, we were introduced through a mutual friend of mine, and I’ve heard a great deal about your career journey and what you’re working on today. But I’d love if you could just briefly walk us through that to take us through what you studied and how you ended up in venture ultimately.
Carolina: Sure, absolutely. So actually I’m a lawyer and after working in the financial market in Brazil, I had an opportunity to work for Intel Capital. So in Intel Capital, I had a specific training on venture capital in the United States. So I lived in the US for a couple of years doing deals for Intel Capital there. And I had never done venture capital before. It was, it’s a funny story because my boss at the time, she asked me in the interview, Carolina, what do you know about venture capital, private equity, M&A? I was, well, I did a couple of M&A here in Brazil and the, you know, the financial market, but that’s it. I don’t know a lot of technology. I have never worked with this. And she was glad about it because at that point of time, this was year 2000, 2001. Here in Latin America, we didn’t have this concept of startups and a lot of proprietary technology being developed. So she liked the approach that I had to be quite frank and transparent with her. And she gave me this opportunity. So I was trained in the US, came back to Brazil, worked for Intel Capital Corp and within their executive committee approving investments in the region. And we did over 300 investments during the years that I was there for a very, very long time. After that, I joined Redpoint Ventures. Which is one of the most iconic funds in Brazil at that point of time as well. It was the most iconic one. We were doing Series A forward in Brazil, only in technology, only in scale. And we had a couple of very fortunate investments such as Happy, Creditas, GenPass, Nowell Hub, Bismu, Pipefy. So we did very well. The fund did very well, the first fund. We still have The first and the second one, they’re still ongoing and we’re finishing the exits there. And after all this experience in the later stage, I figured that I was always seeing the same pipeline. So not only the same technology, but also the same people with the same background. And that’s the reason why I decided to go back or, you know, to get my experience to the very early stage because I wanted to change the pipeline that I was looking into. So that’s when I decided to set up Antler, which is a global venture capital platform in Brazil. So it’s a local fund here in Brazil investing in the very, very early stage.
Aoifinn Devitt: Fantastic. Well, just before we move into the venture capital opportunity set in Brazil and your approach to that, just love to ask, just in terms of developing these skills, was there much of a transition from being a lawyer to being a venture capitalist, or in terms of taking risk and learning how to take risk? And I suppose what were some of the key learnings from Intel Capital?
Carolina: Well, Intel Capital is an engineer company. So coming from the financial market, I found it quite structured. So we had our processes like the deal concept meetings, the investment approval meetings. So DCM, IPA, and the way we would go through a deal in a very framework-oriented way that helped me not only to learn easier, but to understand, you know, which are the values that we can take out of this deal. From a results perspective, so very results-oriented. We would work on due diligence with the very technology strong point of view, but also looking into the structure where we could manage to make the best investment and the best financial results. So have a combination of strategic financial helped me to learn a lot or to develop the this ability of analyzing better the opportunities we had. So I think that’s one of it. Then secondly, I’m not sure if it’s only Intel, but the California or technology way of looking into things, that put me into a situation where I was confronted with the values that I knew before on the financial market. Again, because they valued, you know, the fact that I was a woman, they valued the fact that I had a different point of view. They valued the fact that I was a lawyer in the group. So they had this way of approving deals. They call it three-legged stool. So we had to look into a financial perspective, a business perspective, and the legal perspective. And if any of those three people wouldn’t approve a deal, we would have to go back and restructure the deal or not, or give up the deal. So it depended on the situation, but I felt listened and looked into in a way that I have never felt before in Brazil. That’s what I can tell you.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s a great thing to hear and also a great segue into hearing more about venture in Brazil. And if you don’t mind, if we could even broaden it to Latin America a bit more generally, as I would like to include this podcast as part of our Latin American Voices series as well. So could you paint a picture for the state of venture capital investing Brazil and even Latin America more generally as well?
Carolina: Sure. I think nowadays venture capital in Brazil is very impacted on the interest rates. And this is true in Latin America in generic terms as well. So we have less liquidity. Latin America always had less liquidity in comparison to other countries. That’s something that we have been dealing with for a while. But nowadays, I think it’s, and I’m talking about last year and not the beginning of this year. Okay. So we’ll split this a little bit because of the effect on the foreign exchange rate and the United States latest effect on foreign exchange. But in the last year, we had a lot of trouble securing more funding to Latin America. First of all, because the liquidity was not there. Secondly, because we didn’t have many exits. So our, public markets are closed somehow. We don’t see many IPOs happening in the region. Same thing in the US as well. We see less and less, and we only see the very large IPOs going out. And sometimes, you know, the companies that we invest do not reach a very large standpoint of revenue, but they stay in the middle sizes. And this middle size cannot get funded to get into new stages. That’s the vision I have. We have very strong industries in Latin America, such as fintech, healthtech, edutech, cleantech is doing pretty well. And we do have the internal markets. So Brazil is of course the largest market we have here. Mexico is a fantastic market as well. And it’s growing and getting developed. And now, at least last year, it got more money into the markets than Brazil, which was something in some of the quarters, not in the total of the year, but some of the quarters, they had more money than us, which was quite interesting to see. I didn’t see this happening for the last, you know, 15 years maybe. And that was a very interesting movement. But we see, you know, Colombia, we see other countries getting more development. We didn’t see anything in Argentina yet. We didn’t see more, a lot in Chile. This is beginning to grow, but we see Uruguay, for instance, becoming a new power in the region. And they are very much interested in startups. I’m, you know, I love Uruguay and the way they’re doing And what they’re building there for startups is just fantastic. We’ll probably hear about them in the future. As of now, specifically, since, you know, we have some allocations, some fund allocations from abroad needing to be reallocated to other countries, not only the States, we are receiving a little bit more money than usual because of that, because the foreign exchange rate in the States is a little unstable. So they are reconsidering their allocations. And even for illiquid assets, they’re looking into Latin America and specifically Brazil. And the very minimum amount they would put into our market, that means a lot for us because we’re not used to very large numbers. So this is happening right now, but it’s a momentum. It’s just, you know, just now. We don’t see whether, you know, if this is a tendency, it’s just happening right now. So technology-wise, I think we’re doing pretty well. The fact that artificial intelligence requires less money to be developed You know, at least artificial intelligence tools require less money to be developed from the beginning. That gives us a natural leverage to create products that may become global in Latin America. And that’s something that we should be looking into right now. But we have also some founders that are looking into following the flux of the capital flow, which makes sense as well, and going to the US or to the UK or to other countries, you know, to get, or even, you know, to the Middle East to get their projects funded. But the project itself, it’s not only the idea or the beginning of the execution, but the distribution and the connections of the network you have. So sometimes it’s easier for those Latin American founders to get their solution or their product being developed in the countries they are in and where they have the context, the network to get this developed. And I’m a truly believer that we can get more local products and solutions becoming global, which is something that we’re missing.
Aoifinn Devitt: It’s so interesting. I’m sitting in London where one of the issues with UK venture capital is often maybe perceived gap between the venture capital ecosystem here and that that prevails in the US in terms of the maybe the support network for founders, the availability of very experienced board members, and equally to sometimes to just getting back the whole philosophy and approach to risk. And to failure. How would you say Brazil and other economies in Latin America stack up with respect to some of those factors, the ecosystem for, say, directors and experts, as well as the mindset?
Carolina: I think we have evolved a lot. I think we have better founders, better advisors, better experts. The issue is that the economic cost to stay in this industry in venture capital has to pay off. So we need the success cases, we need the exits. To bring more people in. But we have a lot of talent interested in staying and developing the industry. I’m right now speaking from an innovation hub here in Brazil, fantastic one. I see other ones growing. I see that, you know, the fintechs are growing immensely and they are beginning to create their own ecosystems. And we see all this developing, but we need to have the results. If the final results don’t come, to this industry, then we’re going to miss another cycle. We know this is a cycle industry and we have different characteristics to each of the cycles that we have lived through in Latin America. And now we have, you know, the incumbents investing more in ecosystem, the fintechs investing more in ecosystems, and we need now the market to prove that we are right. So get the final results in the market.
Aoifinn Devitt: That’s very interesting. And then just speaking of the board roles yourself, so you have had a number of board roles both in public companies, as we mentioned, and on the venture side, maybe taking those two either together or separately if there are different skill sets. What are you seeking to bring to the public board roles and then on the venture side?
Carolina: Sure. I’m on the board of two public companies and one private, and I have been going through this as a career for a while. It all began because I was a board member in startups, and then I decided to learn more about, you know, boards and governance and understand better how this works in the public market, not a private market. So I went to a school here in Brazil, and I was getting ready to become a board member. It’s a certification for board member here in Brazil. And I was shocked because what they were teaching in the school, there was nothing to do with the reality of a startup and how a startup would do things. And basically I said to myself that this is not something for me. I’m not a board member after all. I discovered that I’m not a board member and I spoke out to the classroom and to the teacher at that point, to the professor at that point of time saying, you know, it’s beautiful that you’re teaching here, but I do not see a private company, a startup working this way. And by the way, I don’t see a public company working this way as well. This is not effective. This is not productive. I have this mentality, which is completely different from what you’re teaching I do not fit in. That was basically the result out of the certification. So after they finally, they got me the certification, they were gracious to give me the certification at that point of time. But because of that, I decided to get to know better the public companies versus the private companies and their needs. And what I figured out is what the public companies need was a revamp in their board. The board was too corporate. Conservatives in some cases, or antiquate, or with a different dynamic. And they needed, you know, new life, fresh air in the board with new visions. And that’s exactly what, you know, people like me that have different experiences and backgrounds should be joining those boards, you know, to give a new life to the board and to give new ideas. So it’s not uncommon when you speak to board members of public companies in the countries that I work with in Latin America, that they don’t understand artificial intelligence more profoundly, the risks, the governance requirements, or how should artificial intelligence be used actually to the results of the company. And you sometimes not even the first level of executives do understand that, but the people that work there, the workforce understands better than them. So I think that I bring— people like me, we bring different views to a board of a public company. People that have experience with startups or with private companies or with stress, you know, different sorts of stress, even in life or in your profession, we bring different views. And this is so rich, you know, the deep discussions we have from a strategic standpoint in board, they are much richer when you have different point of views. And that’s what I have been doing and, you know, loving it, not only as a career, but to the companies that I add value because the idea is that if you’re in a board, you have to add value to this company. It’s just that I feel that my experience, it’s brand new to them and that I complement the values they have already inside of a board. So I’m basically a tool to complement whatever they have there and to bring different views to the board. That’s it.
Aoifinn Devitt: I love that. And actually, it was— made me think. I mean, this doesn’t just go for Brazil. I think this is around the world. I’d say a lot of public company boards need a reboot given the urgency of AI integration. I think if you’re immersed in the area the whole time, you may expect the rest of the world has, has, has caught up in terms of at least understanding the potential for AI disruption. It seems that many traditional companies are nowhere close to catching up. And I, I like that idea of the reboot. I suppose that this, that will be a, about disseminating that kind of cultural change because I think boards probably are constituted and recruited for in a very traditional way and not just in Brazil but around the world. So may that be a, a stimulus to get more diversity in there. And in terms of the venture side, then that would be a different set of skills, I suppose. Definitely the perspective and experience, but do you find you’re used for particular types of assistance with maybe with additional fundraising, for example, on the venture boards?
Carolina: I still have some startups that I, well, I mentor several startups and I hear around, you know, 2,000 pitches per year, at least either, you know, initial pitches, you know, pitches from companies that are pivoting somehow or relearning what they have internally or the markets. So sometimes they ask me to sit on boards. And I typically say no, but to the companies that we are investors in, Antler, for instance, I do sit on the boards whenever it’s required. We invest, we just give the first check. So typically they do not have a board and they shouldn’t have a board because it’s only like a couple of people working on strategy and beginning traction. But if they are already in traction and they have other investors on the board, I eventually sit there. So I have a couple of startups that I talk to bimonthly or monthly about their strategies within the board. What I try to do is not to get this very serious or bureaucratic. It’s much more, I’m a WhatsApp away from whatever you need than anything else. That’s the kind of support that I prefer to give to startups. It’s different from a public company where we need to have the governance, the sequence, the dynamics completely different. But my startups, they are a WhatsApp away anytime.
Aoifinn Devitt: What access that is to be one WhatsApp away from, from your expertise, that extraordinarily privileged to companies. And I suppose from your vantage point, whether you’re on the board or not at these startups, certainly from your vantage point at Antler, you are seeing their, their fundraising experience. And I think that is never easy and never smooth, but I’d love to just ask whether that is improving. You mentioned a little bit about the rising interest in venture. But particularly in terms of is it evenly spread, the experience of capital raising? We experience often that, say, female founders get less funding, or there is a long tail of founders that are not getting access to funding. How do you perceive that from your vantage point?
Carolina: That’s a very interesting question because when you were talking about fundraising, of course I thought about myself first because we’re always fundraising for the fund. And in my perspective, first of all, it’s a very tough moment for, you know, venture capital funds. And we have the interest rate, which is pretty high, and you need to focus on the investors that are looking into this sort of product. But as a woman, I have to tell you, it’s much harder. Every single time I am in a room with my partners, either my partners include me in the conversation, or of course myself, if I include myself in the conversation, I’m basically ignored by many of the, many, many of the LPs to be, or, you know, the LPs that we would like to invest in the fund. And this is a feeling that I never had before because I was not as deeply involved in the fundraising more like an asset for the fundraising before, but now I’m actively fundraising. And this experience, and I have several, you know, ways of, you know, breaking the chain of not being seen or heard in a meeting or in a fundraising specifically, but that taught me a lot about how to help my female founders to get attention and to make sure that they are heard. In their meetings. And I’m very much sure it’s hard, much harder for them or for a female team to get funding than it is for the male team. They have to prove themselves much more. They have to have the evidences. They have to know the details on the numbers. They have to be wit. They have to be really present in the moment and understand the dynamic of the team that is hearing them, typically a male team. That is hearing their pitch. So I work with them very, very much on this to make sure that we try to overcome whatever we can overcome. There are things that we can control, there are things that we cannot control, and we separate those and prioritize which is the information that you need the people to take from this meeting. What are you going to focus on and make sure that you have it all. You need to be excellent, you need to know it all.
Aoifinn Devitt: That is fascinating. Just before you even used the term breaking the chain, I was thinking of what you must have to do from an action standpoint to get noticed. And I’m thinking of very intentional speaking up, just, you know, gestures around your own visibility. And it’s a lot of effort. It’s positive, intentional effort, it seems. How would you say— what have you used to break the chain, which I think is a fascinating concept?
Carolina: First of all, I’m an expert in the field. And that helps a lot. I have been going through this for ages and different cycles, and I know what I’m talking about. So that gives me the knowledge to show the people that eventually will invest in this fund that they can trust me. So what I try to do is to create trust in the meeting. So first of all, of course, I have to speak out, and of course, I have to have my partners trained on this as well, to feel, to sense when it’s important to put me in, to get me to add value to the meeting. And they help a lot with that. So by myself, it’s harder, but when you have a partner that will help you with this, that’s fantastic. And then secondly, what I try to do is create circle of trust, you know, that I am showing that I can complement the team very well and that the team that is looking into my idea it trusts what I’m telling them and trusts that I’m the right person to do the job. But so it’s basically a trust relationship that I’m trying to get out of the meeting.
Aoifinn Devitt: Very interesting. I think advice that is useful outside venture capital in every domain where women feel they are not represented or anyone feels they are not represented in a room or getting heard. I’d love to just turn to some personal reflections. You’ve mentioned your experience and the many different arenas in which you’ve worked—public, startup, law, et cetera. What were some of the highs and lows of your careers? And in terms of the lows, were there any lessons learned?
Carolina: Well, so many. So my career had highs and lows. Absolutely. The highs are often, they are tied to seeing founders succeed. You know, when I watch a company grow from a very early idea to something impactful, that gives me such a happiness, you know. Each stage, each step that this company, that the startup is taking to solve a huge problem, to become, you know, the option for the customer. And that makes me very, very happy. That’s the same with public companies as well. Each project that I’m in, that I can give them a little more information on how to become a lean startup or, you know, act as a lean startup. That makes me very happy. And the lows are part of the VC, the VC world. So not every investment will work. You invest in founders, you invest in people, and sometimes people change, market change. And sometimes you have to make very difficult decisions on where you are going to put your money, energy, interest. And this is very tough, but you know, such moments, they sort of reinforce the importance of resilience and the strategic and the long-term thinking that you have to have to become a venture capital investor.
Aoifinn Devitt: And in venture capital, we always think about mentorship and role models and guidance. Have you had any particular mentors or role models in your life? And it does not have to have to be exhaustive, just one or two names is fine in terms of them having a formative role for you.
Carolina: I think I have been very fortunate to work with lots of inspiring people throughout my career, other investors, founders, mentors, colleagues, you know, people that shaped me and helped me to evolve and to rethink business and leadership. So I’m not going to nominate them, but I had people early in my career that would support me. In a way, like when I knew nothing about venture capital, Intel Capital, I had Intel Capital, the whole Intel Capital team in the US helping me out and teaching me what VC was. So that was amazing. My boss at that point of time, you know, when she decided that I was going to be the one to enter VC, I, you know, this was amazing. And the CEOs that I have been working with, the CEOs that I have invested in, that I have been working with, and shared, you know, the beautiful moments and the worst moments of their lives, you know, their lives in business and eventually even personal, you know, having these calls at night, Carolina, something happened here, I don’t know how I’m going to deal with this. It helped me as well. So many people were part of this. My partners in Redpoint Ventures, absolutely, they are a role model in introducing me to not a corporate venture capital, but to the venture capital private world and to making sure that I was part of the team as a female. That was fantastic work as well. But the lesson that stayed with me always is the importance of being curious, intellectual curiosity, because the technology through the cycles evolved so fast and The importance of maintaining a continuous learning, a mindset that is, you know, always growing, the growth mindset, really, it’s essential. So I know that I’ll always have these people around me, and I hope that I am the same to other people in any stage of their career. So that’s why I do a lot of mentorships, and each person that reaches out to have some time with you, I have a pro bono time that I schedule in my agenda. A couple of hours per week. That’s like an objective for each year that I have. So I reach out, you know, to make sure that I talk to as many people as I can to make sure that I’m also a positive influence or a positive conversation for them as well, to give back, you know, to give back to everyone and everything that I have received.
Aoifinn Devitt: Again, a remarkable service to the industry and the next generation. My last question is around any words of wisdom, and I think we’ve already touched on a lot of your growth mindset, the way you approach decision-making, the way you ensure that your voice is heard. But if there’s any, maybe one thing you can leave us with, maybe a gem of wisdom or a creed or motto.
Carolina: I think that regarding my career, people think that careers are typically linear, or they used to be linear, right? I’m a lawyer. So after a lawyer, maybe a judge here in Brazil, it’s a typical thing. You would go for a judge or you would go for a a law firm and become a partner in a law firm. And when I decided to do something completely different, this was questioned by my friends and my family. And it wasn’t easy for me to go for a nonlinear career. And I entered in an innovation field, which is even worse because it’s nonlinear and innovation is insane. You know, they have these unexpected turns. As we’re having right now with AI, and they take you out of your safe place. And let me tell you, that’s the most amazing thing I have in my life. I’m not in a safe place. I typically go to the other side and I understand, you know, different things all the time. So I like the fact that some of the most interesting opportunities came in my life from unexpected turns in my profession and in my personal life as well. So when I got really, really sick, I had cancer a couple of years ago, that as of now, it may sound weird, but it was a present. It was a gift. I see things completely different after that. So being open to those paths, to changing the way you see the world, because that’s the only thing we can change. We can’t change the world, but the way we see the world, we can change anytime. We can’t change the world, but it gives some, it’s a it’s a lot of work and we’re working on that as well, but you can change your world and the way you see it. So this can lead you to very rewarding experiences and you should not give up, you know, you should not give this up. Life is something amazing and you should do something amazing with your life.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, what a beautiful and honest and open way to finish this podcast. What I’m hearing is the importance of agility, adaptability, flexibility and being comfortable, or letting at least sit with a tremendous amount of uncertainty. Thank you so much, Carol, for, as I mentioned a few times now, the service you were doing for the industry, for being a champion for so many different strands of this innovation journey, and for coming here and sharing your insights with us.
Carolina: Thank you so much. That was a pleasure talking to you, and you know, you’re doing a great job. I love your work, so keep doing it. Thank you.
Aoifinn Devitt: Well, thank you. I’m Aoifinn Devitt. Thank you for listening to our 50 Faces podcast. If you liked what you heard and would like to tune in to hear more inspiring professionals on their personal journeys, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice, and all views are personal and should not be attributed to the organizations and affiliations of the host or any guest.
Carolina: [MUSIC] [MUSIC]
